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frankd
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Beigetreten: 2011-11-29
Land:: Germany
solarbike

Hello
my name is frank dobbert (Berlin, Germany). I develop solarbikes and solar roofs for ebikes. a folding bike I've already converted and now wants to convert even one more folding bikes 26 inches.
there is a dealer in Berlin, where you can test the model joe

the aim is an electro Joe with a solar roof as range extenders.

thanks frank

www.sonnenfahrrad.de

www.solarchopper.de

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjPBCoFTSP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb8tcTghLek

thor
Bild des Benutzers thor
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Beigetreten: 2011-08-01
Land:: USA

Hi Frank


the German dealers will have a Joe for you if not already than very shortly.


Built that rollcage on it and have a couple pics done .... maybe even put it on your slick website. Than come back and feed us some more spam ..lol


But in all reality, if you put your head out of the window than you need to be able to answer a few questions.


will the motor fit a TERN ?


how heavy is the rollcage for the big bikes, how heavy the extension for the small bikes ?


Where are those fastened and how.


do they stand up on the kickstand or do they fall over ?


whats the wattage of the solarcell ? do you charge a battery with the solarcell and than the motor ? how much watts, what battery.


how long does the cell need to fully charge an empty battery ?


how much does it costs


thats the easy questions...


it sure looks cool though .....


 


Thor  

__________________

www.ThorUSA.com               Tern: Its all about the ride            Dahon: Freedom unfolds

frankd
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Beigetreten: 2011-11-29
Land:: Germany

hi thor,

Here is my answer
The bafang engine in the front wheel makes 250 watts.
The entire folding bike now weighs kg with solar roof 26 kg
Currently 40 Wp are mounted on the roof, but it will next year be the same weight of 96 Wp. In summer, it takes 5-6 hours to recharge.
The charge controler can charge almost all li-xx batteries, the current has 9 Ah, but weighs only 2.5 kg.
The roof is made of aluminum tubes/profiles and weighs 4.5 kg including solar modules, solar chopper at around 6 kg.
The two-legged kickstand in the middle is very stable, a bike stand is obviously better.

And must I keep a few little secrets for me.

frank

 

thor
Bild des Benutzers thor
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-08-01
Land:: USA

You answered some questions... but does it fit the 20 inch Tern bikes ? 


I think you are rather optimistic with your weights, and as a Solar cell owner with various batteries and such, also pretty optimistic about the speed of a full re-charge. ( Unless you are somewhere around the Equator, no cloud in the sky and the solarcell always straight against the sun, with no movement whatsoever, perfect ambient temperatur, fresh battery,, etc etc )


and whats the price ?


We dont have secrets aound here ...lol


 


thor


 

__________________

www.ThorUSA.com               Tern: Its all about the ride            Dahon: Freedom unfolds

dovidhalevi
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Beigetreten: 2011-08-10
Land:: Israel

Way cool!!  I think I would opt for the panels without the other hardware. I would lose out riding directly into the sun that way (with the panel on or over the rack) but this would save much weight and awkwardness (and danger from low branches!).

I have a 250w motor on my Dahon Vitesse. The motor and battery weigh in at 3.3 kg. Add the panel to that. Doubling the weight of the folder makes little sense. (The roll-bars on a full sized MTB might be good--use them to hang wet-weather protection in the winter.)

This motor comes in 80mm and 100mm hub widths. Placing the 80mm on a rim and this on the Vitesse means stretching the forks apart. My bike has steel forks. Tern are likely quite similar so this kit would not go on most of them with their aluminum forks. Since the fork bears the brunt of bumps and strains, I would want to buy a Tern only with chromoloy forks whether or not I go for the motor.

More questions for Frank:

Panel output--can it drive the motor bare (probably not)? On an average Summer day in Germany, for example, how much additional range would the (newer) panels get me. Battery is 91whr and its plugin charger takes 100 min.

And the kicker: the price? (Then, again, these ebike motor-kits are way too expensive anyway, so if I spring for that, what's a few more Euros?)

Might contact freedomebikes.com. They might want to distribute these kits!

 

frankd
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-11-29
Land:: Germany

Good evening

Here, two high-resolution images, the design is very simple, very light but also very stable.

http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/DSC03110.JPG

http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/DSC03115.JPG


Sorry about the secrets, but here the Chinese were already at the door and wanted to know everything.
The 9 Ah battery with 24 volts is getting sucked dry just because of the discharge up to 20%. I.e. 9A * 24 * 0.8 V is about 172 Wh. Of course you need sunny weather, in winter it does not, of course.
how long is a working day or a day at school / college, because it goes to the charging
.
Here is a link to the old solar modules: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/110553/SPECTRA-20-PV-PANEL/SHOP_AREA_...
new solar panels: http://www.ascentsolar.com/1metereipv/

and the cost not the price: solarroof about 1000,- Euro

material; solarmodule 520,-Euro

charger: 120,- Euro

small parts+ alu profiles: 100,- Euro

+ working hours

I'm still in the testing phase, and the solar roof is protected from sun and rain and very high in order not to be himself shadowed by the driver



frank
 

dovidhalevi
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-08-10
Land:: Israel

Better motor kits are 36v (some even 48v now). Mine is 36v. 91 whr battery will power the motor flat-out for 20 min but of course, it is not used that way. In mixed riding, one can go 15km. Since the batteries are small and only weigh .95 kg, one can parallel a second battery. Less expensive is to recharge at work (though batteries do have a finite number of charge cycles lifetime).

Can a 36v solar array of reasonable power and weight be set up? I still cannot see riding with that whole rig, would prefer to place the array above the rack. Depending upon the weight of the array, a less obtrusive stand might be practical.

The parked bike is solar-recharging on a sunny day. However, it says quite loudly: steal me! Or at least the battery and solar panel if the bike is chained securely. Something to be considered, unfortunately.

frankd
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Beigetreten: 2011-11-29
Land:: Germany

36 volt are difficult to make solar charge controller is either 12 volt or 24 volt.
And the volt solar modules have mostly 12 volt
One would even make a comparison trials where there is more solar power,  on the solar roof or back of the rack.
The ideal would, of course, one could build a solar bike with optimal frame.
Here are a few high-resolution images of solarchopper


http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/DSC09004.JPG
http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/DSC02561.JPG


the rollcage of solarchopper is made entirely of aluminum and was previously a rocking chair of LECO
http://www.wohndetails.de/shop/images/product_images/popup_images/17_1_L...
 

dovidhalevi
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-08-10
Land:: Israel

The chopper, based on a full-sized MTB, might be the way to go. One is less worried about weight on these than on a folder.

Conrad does have 18v arrays so could make 36v as well. A 1.5 amp array would give maybe a 15% range boost in best sunlight. Would charge the freedom ebike battery in two hours. One would need to consider cost vs benefit. A second battery doubles the range, works rain or shine, and would cost comparable or less then the solar panel plus its hardware. A spare charger at work on in the school locker is a very cheap alternative as well.

The 90cm+ array are not a good formfactor for a folding bike (they have 1.5m ones as well!). Maybe on the chopper. A roof made of two of these would be practical, could feed your motor 3A which would give a 30% range boost or quick-charging at noon. Again, cost vs. benefit. Photovoltaic cells are still very inefficient and though these thin, flexible cells are light, they still need a lot of area to deliver the power and are not cheap.

Again, contact freedomebikes. They designed the lightest but quite effective electric assist kit and might work with you to come up with an effective solar kit for folders as well.

Looking forward to further developments!

thor
Bild des Benutzers thor
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Beigetreten: 2011-08-01
Land:: USA

ouch .... having the bike next to BMW C1 is kinda ........


I dont know , I think to remember that the BMW was ( is ) a real marketing flopp and has costs BMW lots of money and a few top echelon people in higher ranks...


From a marketing point of view I wouldnt use that pic.... but I digress ....


 


 


Now Frank .... 


we all love the idea ( let me talk for everyone around ..lol)


I would love it even more if there would be a possibility to use the system on a 20 inch Tern .... meaning a 74 mm OLD motor ....


 


In all reality, having built some electric bikes ( mostly Bionix ) I am looking forward to a very clean, light and uncomplicated system without cables and any potrusions from the bike. I think I want the new Sram unit, at least I think that Sram has the right idea and rather goes the KISS way .... at least on the outside.


The inside of the Sram system is very very nice and makes a lot of sense....


 


Than I can use my old heavy, 80 watt solar cell from the boat, at home, mounted on a pole (or roof) and charge the bike battery there ....


 


Because its a folding bike, and I want to be able to actually fold it, to take inside or my trunk or the train or or or WITHOUT any hassle ....


 


 


Thor  

__________________

www.ThorUSA.com               Tern: Its all about the ride            Dahon: Freedom unfolds

frankd
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-11-29
Land:: Germany

guys,

this is the beginning and at some point you have to start again.
The modules are lighter and more efficient, optimized, and the frame is also folding. And you can easily carry in your car. Installation time 1-2 min
http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/DSC03463.JPG

The idea is a temporary solar charging station, a community who meet with their solar bikes at the station or school or college, park there to load and deliver a special kickstand their solar power can also ebike without a solar roof. it is social energy

http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/ansi35.jpg

And you can also use solar roof with no bike, ideas are there for a whole lot

http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/ansi37.jpg
http://www.sonnenfahrrad.de/ansi36.jpg


and from bmw c1 was taken internally only for size comparison.

frank
 

HGR3inOK
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-08-02
Land:: USA

Well, in Oklahoma, if you can adjust those panels to catch the sun AND the wind, you'll probably have a perpetual motion machine. wink


 


-HANK RYAN-


Normam, Oklahoma  USA

__________________

DISCLOSURE: I have an ownership interest in an independent bike shop that is an authorized dealer for Raleigh, Diamondback, Eastern, Hoffman, Dahon, Tern, Brompton & Xtracycle. See: http://www.alsbicycles.com/about/norman-pg237.htm 

thor
Bild des Benutzers thor
Offline
Beigetreten: 2011-08-01
Land:: USA

Hi Hank


yup I was thinkin the same .....


 


reminds me long time back.   I was involved when the Nuerburgring ( Race track in Germany ) was re- opened adding the new portion of the F1 track. We had a bike race, a bike tourist lap, and included in that was a fellow which mounted a Windsurf Sail to his bike.


On the start straight he did well and under the bravado fo 100000's spectators ( The Formula one guys were racing later on ) he took off like a motorcycle. Than he had to take the first turn ... the wind now was behind him and the sail flopped over... he took a backwards forward sideways roll in mid air and crashed in spectacluar fashion.... people gave him a standing ovation ....  He crashed another 10 times after that, until I had to pick him up and get him of the track due to the next event was being delayed ....  It was kinda funny, although I felt bad about the new "inventor"


 


thor


p.s. yeah I was sipping champaign with Niki Lauda, Prost, Villeneuve, Stuck, Roehrl.... and and and  in the VIP floor of the timing tower that day, besides driving one of the pace car .... good times .. 

__________________

www.ThorUSA.com               Tern: Its all about the ride            Dahon: Freedom unfolds

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